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Post by deberrydogs on Dec 17, 2009 8:45:34 GMT -5
Hello, I was wondering if the experienced breeders in the group would be willing to share what to do as a prevention of yeast in the crop. As of yet, I have not had problems...but would like something on hand to use to offset it if it comes along. I tried to get Diflucan(?)sp script from my local vet(not avian) but he insisted we need to do the testing first and then get the script if it is positive. Since I am looking at this as a prevention/be ready if it comes, that is not going to work, is it? LOL...Anyhow, I have heard a little applesauce will help the crop empty, read something about apple cider vinegar....but was wondering if there are things that the experienced breeders swear by... Thanks for your time.... Jean in Illinois
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Post by cherylrowland on Dec 17, 2009 15:36:37 GMT -5
Jean,
There is nothing that you can really do about yeast in the crop, it may happen even if you do everything right. But here are some ideas:
1. Yes, apple cider vinegar may work, but you have to get it from the health food store (it cannot be distilled).
2. Use pre-mixed formula that already has probiotics in it, heat it between 104 degrees and 110 degrees (no hotter and no colder), do not microwave the formula (you will kill the probiotics), but you can heat the water with the microwave and ensure that the chick does not get cold.
Hope this helps you out.
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Post by sarak on Dec 18, 2009 21:01:22 GMT -5
You can buy whole, "with the mother" apple cider vinegar at the grocery store, many times.
Most formula's have probiotics, and I would never feed my babies anything over 105F, NEVER 110!!!
Yeast is not something to fear, but something to be aware of and be able to catch early. I had my first experience with it in my last clutch, I now have babies from the same parents and will be watching them even closer, ready to step in early if needed.
Talk to people who have raised a lot of Cockatiels, most have probably experienced yeast, and Im betting everyone will have different ways they prevent or treat it. My suggestion is to just be prepared, but not paranoid.
I will not be without Nystatin (medistatin) which is a topical antifungal good for crops, and diflucan which is a systemic medication good for crop yeast as well as a generalized yeast infection.
Good luck.
Sara K
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Post by cherylrowland on Dec 19, 2009 15:15:24 GMT -5
Jean,
Just to let you know, I got the information I posted from Sandy Warren, who has been breeding for a long time.
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Post by deberrydogs on Dec 19, 2009 16:24:20 GMT -5
I value everyone's opinions and methods, I suppose it is a bit like trying on shoes, one method may "fit" for the person, but not for everyone...I appreciate the help I have gotten from everyone already on here...:-)
I will pick up the apple cider vinegar and the Nystatin(already suggested privately :-) ) and that way I have it on hand...cannot seem to obtain the diflucan tho, but that is ok... Jean
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Post by sarak on Dec 19, 2009 19:25:46 GMT -5
FYI, I am a registered veterinary techinician and I have handfed and raised not only cockatiels but african greys, budgies, lovebirds, pionus, red belly parrots, meyers parrots and a parrotlet in the last twenty years that I have had birds.
However, you mileage may vary and you should do what you are comfortable with.
Medistatin is a generic form of nystatin and much cheaper...look for it if you can!
You are right, we all have different things that work...but those who have bred and raised birds are probably the best ones to give advice, and adapt your methods from.
Good luck!
Sara K
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Post by Talk About Tiels Admin on Dec 19, 2009 19:39:06 GMT -5
Yeast and cockatiels go hand and hand. Its something that you have to look out for alot and, like Sara said, you must catch it very early stages. Yeast is normally caught by stressed out parents, double clutching parents, over antibiotic use (in babies or parents), and weak birds.. I use Nystatin (metastatin) for the first couple of days I handfeed. You put the nystatin in first, let it sit for 5-10 minutes, and then feed on top of it. You can go to www.birdsupplynh.com or jedds.com and look for metastatin. But, please consult your vet on how to mix it. You should only give a little mixture (about 1 cc) and its on contact so using it first (before feeding) is imperative. I feed at 103-105 degrees. I haven't gone over 105 and haven't ever tried 110. Not sure it will hurt the crop, just don't think I will ever get that closet to a scalding temp which seems to be around 120. Microwaving doesn't necessarily kill probiotics but treated water (regular tap water) certainly does as it often contains bleach/ammonia in it for general antibacterial properties. This won't hurt adult birds, but I don't like feeding that water to babies anymore. I take tap water, run it through a brita and then let sit for at least 12-24 hours before i use it. That way the chlorine naturally evaporates off. Probiotics will not necessarily help with yeast, but it is good for helping balance the immune system of baby birds. I do not use Apple Cider Vinegar but I would recommend using garlic in your formula. A small amount of crush formula (1/10th of a teaspoon) a couple of times a week (not a day) also has been recommended to keep the yeast away. Remember, yeast is only an overgrowth of naturally occuring bacteria. You will never probably get rid of all Candida (yeast) and you probably need a little bit in your birds to combat other bacteria. Leslie
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jhb
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by jhb on Mar 2, 2010 16:01:32 GMT -5
I case you can not find organic apple cider with the mother, if you can get just the apple cider, then all you need to do is open the container, place some kind of mesh screen (cheeze cloth, or just clean cloth, or paper towel over the opening to keep any insects like fruit flies from getting in or you will have an epidemic soon, and then just wait for a couple of weeks or so. The apple cider will ferment to form apple wine, and then the wine will oxidize to form the vinegar. You will retain all the whole apple particles and the mother will form all in good time you will have the more expensive health food store product at a cheaper cost. Many people use this as a daily ritual intake along with other uses, so a gallon jug can be consumed in a realtively short time, and is not just good for the birds. I do a seed mix for my birds where I add various nutrients such as general vitamins, calcium power, bee pollen, powdered fruits and veggies, powdered protein, etc. etc. etc. and then a capful of apple cider vinegar, and a capful of olive oil, then mix and let stand before giving to the birds. The birds consume everything and seem to be very healthy and productive. I have one cockatiel that just laid 13 consequtive eggs, so I divided them and placed the first half with a young pair who has raised them up to weaning and the original pair is raising the remaining half. All eggs were fertile and developed well. Rgarding sour crop and yeast infection, I have experienced that, but only when I pull the babies at an early age *7-21 days) and never when I leave them with the parents for feeding until they are well developed and feathered out and getting close to weaning, when I then intercede and they then all seem to do quite well. I have tried the apple cider, and yes it seems to help, but then it comes right back, and then with administering the apple cider and all seems to interfer with the food and feeding cycle and all goes wrong, and though the bird stays alive and develops further, there is always a stunting of growth and other maldevelopment, and sickness stays with the bird until it finally dies. Perhaps there is help for my actions, but thus far, prevention has been the only real cure, and for me prevention has been to delay the handfeeding as long as possible.
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Post by jeannesmithdvm on Sept 20, 2012 13:57:18 GMT -5
I'm an avian veterinarian, in private all bird practice since 1988. I was the consulting veterinarian for Roudybush, Inc from 1988-2007. I recently started marketing a probiotic that is species specific for cockatiels, called Tiel-bac. It's a lactobacillus that was isolated from the crop wall of cockatiels. Because it colonizes their GI tract it excludes harmful bacteria and yeasts from overgrowing. It isn't a treatment, but it is a preventative. You can check out more information at my website at Avianhealthproducts.com. This probiotic is the result of 11 years of research and I'm really happy to finally be offering it to cockatiel breeders and owners.
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